Episode #36: Grape and wine sector resilience in South Australia

Paul Arbon is a Matthew Flinders distinguished professor, experienced researcher and leader in emergency and disaster resilience. Currently, he’s the Director of the Torrens Resilience Initiative and the World Health Organisation Collaborating Center, or WHOCC for mass gatherings and global health security at Flinders University. Professor Arbon’s research career has been strengthened by senior management experience, both as a Chief Commissioner of St. John’s Ambulance Australia and President of the World Association for Disaster and Emergency Medicine. Now, I like to start with where we met, gosh, I can’t actually remember. Paul is one of those names that’s been part of the resilience sector for many years, and I was always keeping across what was coming out of the Torrens Resilience Initiative or TRI.

Paul is one of those names that’s been part of the resilience sector for many years, and I was always keeping across what was coming out of the Torrens Resilience Initiative or TRI.

We connected more when I started winning projects in South Australia, and we quickly realised that we have the same mindset towards what resilience can bring and the benefits that can come. Our bridging tie connection is a great example of how academia and a social enterprise can collaborate on delivering best practice for business communities. It’s been fantastic to run a pilot version of our Business Community Resilience Toolkit program for the South Australian Grape and Wine sector as an extension of the work TRI is also doing in this space. Oh, and Paul is my supervisor, given I’m now an adjunct research fellow at Flinders University.

1. So Paul, let’s start with what is the Torrens Resilience Initiative or TRI, what does it do and why is it making such an impact in the resilience ecosystem?

Paul Arbon

Well, TRI has a bit of a history in this space. It was formed as a response to the National Strategy for Disaster Resilience, which, was produced by Council of Australian Governments (COAG) many years ago, about 15 or 18 years ago. And since that time, its focus has been on drawing out expertise from the university system, from a whole range of disciplines into, collaborative projects that might build resilience for communities and organisations and individuals. And those projects, in my mind almost always need to be transdisciplinary because there’s always a need for some education, some understanding of the infrastructure or the technology, all those kinds of things. And you need all those people at the same table. So that’s, you know, effectively what we do. We’re a kind of node for that activity to occur, I think.

Renae Hanvin

2. And why is it making such an impact? I mean, it’s been around for a little while. I said in my introduction that I’ve, you know, I couldn’t work out where we met, but, I knew your name and I knew TRI, so like why is it, why is it so important in part of the resilience sort of ecosystem that we’re many of us are working in?

Paul Arbon

I think there are two reasons. One is, that aspect that I talked about. When you put people together around a room, you have a capacity to address all sorts of problems. And so, you know, we’ve had, it’s just really interesting place to sit because we’ve ranged from, how to install generators into aged care facilities given the regulation around such things, to food security, to biological threats, to, drought, all sorts of things because we have a range of different people who drop in and out of those projects and, and can kind of kind of address them. So I think that’s, that’s part of the story. I think the other, you know, deliberate thing about, what we try to do is that we have consciously, moved away from focusing on the emergencies and events that receive a lot of attention and try to focus on the margins on the emerging and, and new threats. So we don’t do much stuff in fire, we don’t do much talking about floods, but we do do a lot of talking about, AI and about, infectious diseases and about, the long-term psychological consequences of living through an emergency. All sorts of things that we would argue aren’t getting the same attention as, as the immediate, you know, bright and shiny emergency does. So I think that’s probably our job, probably our principal role.

Renae Hanvin:

Paul, and I think that’s why we get along so well, because I like doing things differently and, looking in that different space as well.

3. Now you’ve been working with the grape and wine sector in South Australia for a number of years. How did this come about? I mean, obviously it’s a massive industry, in that state. And what have you been working on and what’s been discovered or delivered to date by TRI?

Paul Arbon

Well, it came about, principally again for the same reason. It’s just such a rewarding, I guess and interesting thing to connect with experts from other disciplines. And even within universities that usually doesn’t happen because people sit in their space and they research and, and teach about their particular things. So it’s, it’s just an interesting forum and, and we happen to have, in the membership of TRI, three people that were working from a business, government and law perspective in the wine industry. And those conversations led to, a desire to try to support the many, particularly smaller businesses that contribute to that space. so those people were working across, tourism and hospitality and wineries and grape growers and all of those different groups and seeing that they all had common concerns. So, you know, that’s how we, how we got into it.

There are so many things we’ve learned from that space, and, it’s difficult to know where to start. But I would say that, in the emergency management, sector, we tend to produce very good advice, in easily understood materials, but not in a coordinated way. And so often there’s too much material and we don’t necessarily do the hard yard work that we have to do to, ensure that people understand which materials relate to them or that, or even that there’s advice out there, and why it’s important to them. We don’t go out and connect with, instead we tend to put up good advice and, and expect people to find it. so that’s, you know, that’s a principle learning, I think.

Renae Hanvin

And I think you’ve done a couple of reports for the grape one industry, and I think one of them was you were looking at all the different points of content, or information and I was it over like 300 and something possible places or spaces that people can kind of get, you know, links in that, that they can get, emergency management information, is that right? Just for this one sector?

Paul Arbon:

Not for the one sector, but overall, there, there are issues about that. There are 330 actually, pamphlets and booklets and web pages, websites that, come from a wide range of government and NGO sources and purport to advise the community about what to do to prepare for an emergency. So, you know, lots of stuff out there and it is a bit hard to know where to start. The other really interesting thing I think, in that space is that generally the focus of that advice is that the individual level or the household level. So people talk about how to prepare your house, and yet the advice for a business, largely would be, precisely the same. So you would talk to businesses about preparing their buildings in the same way you talk about preparing a house. And, and we don’t do that. We don’t, we don’t see necessarily business as part of our, our audience in the way that I think we should. So there’s some amendment of many of those materials, simple amendments, that would make those materials much more, useful or at least they would appear to be aimed at, you as a business owner. I think that’s quite important to do.

Renae Hanvin

Yeah, and I mean, I guess that’s, you know, that’s the whole premise of why I set up Resilient Ready in that sense because that the business owner, operator manager, even employees and you know, nonprofits as well, I mean, they’re so central to community resilience and wellbeing, and they really are a audience, that aren’t considered or included to the majority. And I do agree, you know, there’s a lot of, similarity between preparing the household and preparing the business, but I think it is a different lens and it has to come with a different approach because business people, and as we’ve mentioned so many, you know, 98% of small business people, you know, they don’t have time. They don’t have, you know, capacity, they don’t have the money necessarily, and they’re just working on their business that they can’t interpret the household stuff for their business themselves.

Renae Hanvin

They need it fed to them, which is why, our micro learning approach is getting so popular. So moving on to that, we collaborated recently on the Future Ready Grape and Wine Sector Business Pilot program, which was funded by SAFECOM Disaster Risk Reduction Program, to embed some micro learning into the sector. And it’s been really great to connect your findings over the many years that you’ve been working in this sector, and what we’ve learned about the business people in South Australia. So what’s been the best part of the program in terms of us, you know, a social enterprise and academia collaborating with each other.

4. What do you think the pilot program, it’s just recently, finished, what do you think it can offer the South Australian grape and wine, business people that they don’t already know or they don’t already do?

Paul Arbon

I think the, the big picture one for me, is an understanding, I think people know this anyway, in rural communities in particular and across, across some of these sorts of sectors, but an understanding that, grape and wine businesses are a central part of an ecosystem in these communities that, has co-dependencies. you know, people rely, businesses rely on each other, and rely on certain sorts of services. So you think about, the great wine industry as being really embedded in Australia in with tourism and with hospitality and with accommodation, but also with services like plumbing and, and, electricians and and so on and so on. But even further back into those communities. So I keep saying to people, the number of beds available at the local hospital is dependent on the success and prosperity of the core industries in that region and in many, many regions.

That is the great wine sector, right? So it is fundamentally central to the life and health and prosperity, of, of the communities in which it works. And I think if you talk to many grape growers and wine makers, they do get that they are very connected to their communities. but it is an important thing to remember. I think, it also means that the things that they depend on, also need the kind of micro training that we’ve been doing with great wine providers. You know, there are many, many other businesses that are part of the success of the great wine industry that also should be folded into this kind of education, I think. and then the second thing at a more locally in a personal level is, why is it good for people? And, and fundamentally I think that’s because we are increasingly, we increasingly understand that some of the shocks to our businesses, are unexpected and have, consequences that we didn’t think about.

And so the way to deal with that is to make more robust, I’ll say systems, it sounds a bit academic, but more robust ways of doing and running the business. And that can be financial, it can be personnel related in terms of who knows how to do what in the business, the kind of redundancies that you might need if a thing breaks or a person is not available. All of those kinds of things are about building a more resilient or robust business, regardless of what actually happens to you. So it might be that, in this case, that China, takes away access to the market. It might be that there’s a wildfire through your grape wine, region, whatever that threat might be, your business will still be better off because you’ve got some of these kind of fundamental all hazards kinds of protections in place. So I think that’s a really important part of it all.

Renae Hanvin

And I think from what I’ve learned from this program, I mean, a lot of the grape and wine, business people that we met, you know, they’re generational. They’ve been in it, they’ve grown up with it. They’ve had, you know, parents, grandparents, who have been running it as well. But I guess the way of doing business is a bit different now because there’s more types of disruptions. So getting some of that knowledge and, you know, embedding into their culture of running the wineries or, you know, the, machinery, you know, businesses, et cetera, you know, you need to have a different and more robust mindset, and understand your business, I think a bit more because a lot of perhaps what just happened, you know, and, and equated in success in the past, you know, the one in 100 year flood or bushfire is sort of happening much more often. And as you mentioned before, it’s not just the bigger, typical things, but the pandemics and then the cybers and then, you know, supply chains and, you know, oh, it just goes on and on and on.

5. Now we piloted 10 micro learning modules. We had 10 different top topics in the program. What were the two standouts for you?

Paul Arbon

I think, I think they’re all standouts actually.

Renae Hanvin

That’s a good answer.

Paul Arbon

Yeah, I have to say, I think they’re all necessary because there’s a logical progression through them, to kind of go module one, what’s all about, therefore we have to think about this and this and this and this. I think having said that, there are some of them that are fundamental to businesses in general, you know, insurance and finance and so on. and those spaces are increasingly, difficult or tricky. Insurance is a great example in terms of what you can ensure and what you can ensure and what ensure against. So those are important. But the ones I think that are, most important, the relationship with emergency management or emergency services, I think it’s, there’s a lot of work to be done to improve that relationship and to make it more of a constant annual regular connection, with relationships built on both sides, you know, in the business, but also among emergency management people who might provide advice to businesses that that piece is really important.

Needs, needs more development, as well. And the other piece is the, the linchpin, part, you know, who are the people in the business around the business that I really rely on, or, or can I build them so that, in many of these businesses, there’s one or two people, often one person who if, often the owner who if they fell over, things would be very difficult, even in terms of how to run the plant and, keep the product safe and all those sorts of things. So I think that linchpin piece is really important as well.

Renae Hanvin

Yeah, I agree. It’s funny. I really liked and learned a lot. I, as you know, in each of the microlearning modules, we had a case study and, I did all the interviews, for this one and all the recordings and oh gosh, I learned so much from them. But I think it’s some of those fundamental kind of, you know, doing business, again, the tasks or the culture or embedding it or thinking or doing it in a different way. I did like the insurance one because, it was a, again, the case study was about someone who had just had the same insurance for, you know, 20 years and then learned the hard way after the Kangaroo Island fires that, you know, they didn’t have the right insurance. And so now certainly do have the right insurance and also the financial hardship one, it was really great to, chat with Jock who talked about, you know, there’s a lot of change and you know, at the end of the day it’s, you know, it’s the money that keeps us in business.

Renae Hanvin

So getting your head around it and getting, asking for help, you know, the likes of the rural financial councils or whatnot before it’s too late, before you’re really stuck in the quicksand. there’s nothing wrong with reaching out to say that you need a bit of help to better understand your financial numbers as well. But we only did 10 modules. We, there were so many we didn’t include that. I think we could also include. So moving forward, I mean, you know, I’d like to think we had a pretty good collaboration.

6. So what do you reckon you and I and helping the grape and wine sector, can achieve together moving forward?

Paul Arbon

I think there are, there is a need for us to move this particular activity, forward. I have a strong sense that what we’ve done in, in kind of micro training in smaller sessions is to wake people up to, you know, once you get that hook in and engage people, and give them a little bit of content, they go, okay, so maybe I need to do some work. I think the piece that then is missing in many of the, modules and sections is, is what to then do. So if we wake up about insurance and we know that insurance isn’t quite the insurance we need, how do we build that insurance? And who’s going to do that and where does it come from? What does it look like, and how is it different between sectors, because the needs are different and that’s particularly true in spaces like grape wine, but also horticulture and so on, where the processes are quite unique, in terms of producing those products. So, so where to go next in terms of, excuse me, that big end, the back end, is important.

Renae Hanvin

Yeah, I think so. And again, you and I have spoken about it. I guess, you know, our approach is that short little, you know, little sort of first step through the door Micro learning that we do is all led by nudge theory. It’s about taking small steps to drive, you know, big outcomes. And I think that there are some great opportunities for us to, you know, progress each of these micro learning themes a bit further. And I know you mentioned insurance and I know how much you love insurance, conversations, but we’re certainly, looking to evolve and step those forward, as an extension of the program. Now, before I ask my final question, I don’t know if you know Paul, but I’m an adjunct research fellow at Flinders University, which clearly, you know, because you very much recommended and suggested me now. I have to really thank you for suggesting and nominating me ’cause I never even thought that this sort of thing would be something possible.

7. And I’m, I’m pretty quietly chuffed, but as my supervisor, am I your favorite student?

Paul Arbon

Well, you’re not a student, so, so there is that. Oh, okay. Well.

Renae Hanvin

Am I your favorite adjunct research fellow? Are you, you did take a pause there before you answered, which has me a bit concerned. Yeah.

Paul Arbon

I was just thinking whether you are my most difficult, but that’s not true. That’s seriously not true. Look, it’s, the wonderful thing about, the relationship between Resilient Ready and Flinders and yourself as an adjunct, as with other partnerships, is that it grounds, the University and its contribution to the communities it serves, in, the real world to some extent. And it helps to connect, practitioners with, experts who are often more theoretical in their thinking. But that relationship is really very exciting. and we see that happen across all sorts of things. But for the development of businesses and, for the support of businesses and organisations that might be under threat, it’s it’s an important piece of work to do and it’s great, great thing to do. You and your the team members at Resilient Ready are at the forefront of that. And, and so yeah, it’s actually, it’s not, it’s not too, it’s not too bad, really, thanks.

Renae Hanvin

I have to, I have to say though, Paul, I’m gonna be honest, I often sit in rooms with lots of academia and ah, man, I’ve got no idea what they’re talking about and I’ve got nothing in common. But you and I, we have, you know, worked quite a lot side by side over the past, particularly 6 to 12 months. And I have really enjoyed it because I think we think very similarly, but with a different lens, but we are both about applying it. So I often say that Resilient Ready is about translating government policy and academia research into everyday, behaviors and cultures and knowledge that can make people think different and do different. And we certainly are doing that. So I have absolutely loved every step of the way and it’s given me a, a new view of, possible collaborations with academia that, I’ll be honest, I didn’t even know was possible. So I always ask my same final question and you gotta limit yourself to two.

Paul Arbon

Wow, that’s a big question. I think that number one, is the responsibility for thinking about developing policy, responding to recovering from the sorts of critical disruptive events. And I’d rather use that terminology in some ways than disaster. it has to be spread across, governments across different departments and across, private sector and NGO organisations much more. And what we tend to do, I think, is to, devolve responsibility for thinking about these things to one or two departments in government. And, and it doesn’t work, because they don’t have the leaders to make the changes that are required. So it has to be, everyone’s responsibility would be one of those things. I think the other thing that, much closer to home for me is that we need to encourage better mechanisms for, universities and others to have, guides who can make sense of what the needs are and draw in the right people who can help to answer those sorts of questions. and I think fundamentally that’s what TRI tries to do in that there are a whole lot of people in dark rooms in the back of universities with incredible expertise or a particular skillset who don’t, necessarily understand what they could do to contribute to these questions. And we can help them do that and it takes people like yourself to translate, you know, make sense of what the need really is so that people can understand that their contribution might be important. Yeah, those two things are related, I think, really. Yeah.

Renae Hanvin

A hundred percent. I think, yeah, again, I mean that’s why we get on so well ’cause I think we speak a lot the same, so I’m, yeah, I’m, I was wondering where you were gonna go there ’cause I know that you’ve had so much experience and there were so many potential different directions. But a big thank you to Professor Paul Arbon AM Director of the Torrens Resilience Initiative at Flinders University for talking to me about grape and wine sector resilience in South Australia. Paul, thanks so much for joining me and we’ll no doubt, talk soon. Thanks

Paul Arbon

Renae. Great. Thanks Renae.