Episode #37: It’s time to focus on small businesses

The Hon Bruce Billson commenced his role as the Australian Small Business and Family Enterprise Ombudsman, or ASBFEO in March, 2021. He brings experience and knowledge to the role of Ombudsman and an understanding of the issues facing small businesses, having started his own advisory business in 2016. Bruce’s political career spans 30 years, including his role as Cabinet Minister for Small Business from 2013 to 2015. He’s shown his dedication to small business through being a founding Director of Judo Bank and various board appointments, including the Franchise Council of Australia, Deakin University Business School, and the Australian Property Institute. So, I’d like to start with where we met. As many of you know, I have the former Small Business and Family Enterprise Ombudsman, Kate Carnell as a volunteer advisor of Resilient Ready, who’s really provided me fantastic support over the past five or so years.

I didn’t know if there was anyone who’d be able to match the passion for small businesses as Kate, and then I met Hon Bruce Billson. When Bruce became the Ombudsman in 2021 I was really quickly excited by his clear passion for everything small business. He’s just so approachable, helpful, and he really is interested in what can help Australian small businesses to thrive. Over the past three years, we’ve had many, many catchups and he’s always been really keen to know what we are leading at Resilient Ready while suggesting who I should connect with and how our missions align. It’s so great to have someone in a key small business government role give you the time of day to meet, to chat and learn about how we at Resilient Ready can also drive positive change. Bruce, thanks so much for joining me today.

1. Now, please explain to me and my listeners what is the Small Business and Family Enterprise Ombudsman. Why do you exist?

Bruce Billson

Well, we’re the best ally small and family business can have, particularly when things aren’t going so well. We offer an assistance service, which helps to resolve disputes without a small and family business, hopefully needing to go to court. Or it might be us steering those businesses to where the best place is for them to get help. We also publish a lot of data and insights around what’s happening in the small and family business economy where so many people, I mean, I use the phrase, rely on EC data, recurring anecdotes to guide their thinking. We try and really look under the hood and, and provide a very clear evidence-based picture of what’s going on. And the third thing we do is we, we champion the cause of small and family businesses by being advocates and engaging in the process of laws being formulated, programs being developed, policies being, worked up. We make sure that that small and family business voices right on the radar screen and front of mind for decision makers. Well, we try to as best we can. So that’s, they’re the three legs to our school.

Renae Hanvin

And it’s so important to have someone who’s so passionate and dedicated to small businesses in this role leading the space, because it is quite a different, I guess, lens between in government and small businesses. So we need someone to really be able to translate the best interest for small businesses in the, I guess, environment of the government. So I mentioned in the intro that you have, I guess a background in small business.

2. So where does your passion come from? Like why are you so keen to spend every day working out ways a bit like me, to help small businesses stay in business?

Bruce Billson

Well, as you’ve mentioned, I’m extremely passionate about enterprising men and women. You know, I’ve grown up in communities where small and family businesses are the economy. So I’ve seen firsthand just how vital that contribution they make and the courage that’s exercised every day in taking risks in, you know, turning an idea into an investment and creating so many livelihoods is so important. The hard steps are pretty compelling. A third of all ours GDP made possible by small and family businesses. That’s that’s an enormous contribution. And two in five private sector jobs are made possible by those small and family enterprises. So that’s the scope of why it’s important and the connection it has with me, in terms of my personal story, but where my mind is at is I see through government and the actions of regulators, that well-intended people trying to do the right thing, trying to do their best.

They’re often very removed from the day-to-day life and experiences of small and family businesses that are impacted by their actions, by their decisions and, and by the authority they exercise. And we try and bring that very vivid real life. You know, it’s often the ASBFEO refer to me as the dirty boots regulator. I’m not actually a regulator, but we are in the field feeling the bumps and, you know, the headwinds and the challenges. And we can feed that real time insight into hopefully better performance of government regulators and agencies, better decision making and a more supportive ecosystem for enterprising men and women. So that’s what sort of drives me and, you know, having owned a few small businesses, some successful, some not so successful, you know, I know what’s involved and, you know, it’s, it’s part of, why I feel very purposeful and very motivated in the work that I do.

Renae Hanvin

And as I said, we are so lucky because, you know, as a small business person, I’m, you know, I just wanna do what I do. I’m not even necessarily that great in business, although pretty, probably pretty good. But I think it’s a real skill and it’s a real need on behalf of all of, you know, small businesses like me, to have someone who can really be our voice and advocate and then explain it to us as well. So, so important.

3. So what do you think, what are the biggest challenges for small businesses across Australia today?

Bruce Billson

Well, right now it’s really tough. Staying profitable. Yeah. you know, in the last full financial year where tax information’s available, 46% of small businesses weren’t profitable. For the million and a half Australians that are self-employed, that, you know, create their own livelihoods, their own economic opportunities, three quarters, Renae have, are taking home less than average total weekly earnings. Yet, given that modest income, you know, there’s no rivers of gold there. The regulatory burden just keeps growing and growing. And I’m concerned that that risk reward balance is out of whack at the moment. And there’s far too many headwinds for small and family business people, not enough reward and an awful lot of risk where if they operate in an increasingly complex regulatory environment, um, getting something wrong is a big concern. But the consequences of getting something wrong, you see penalties and the impacts of an error increasing as well.

And, you know, we’re seeing, you know, a shift in the, in the demography. The average business owner’s now 50, you know, it’s really quite staggering. And, you know, the number of business owners that are under 30 is about 8% about, you know, what, younger people or young at heart people must be thinking about the headwinds, the challenges, the big responsibility of owning and leading and running a business, and just what the rewards might be, and weighing that up against other lifestyle options, other livelihoods that might be a little less challenging, I’d argue far less rewarding. But, you know, they might go, Hey, if I’m just trying to bring, bring cash in, I might choose to work for the man or the woman, not work for myself. And let someone else worry about, you know, whether the business is viable or not.

The compliance and regulatory obligations being up at 10 o’clock at night, filling out whatever the latest regulator wants from you. I can see why some people aren’t jazzed by that and we are trying to make sure that ecosystem is more supportive, but also tell the story about the joy that can be derived from, leading and owning your own business. There’s flexibility for some, not less work, but maybe more work. But you can structure and shape that in a way that works for you. It might be a passion like you’ve done that, Renae, you’ve got a passion that you’ve turned into an enterprise. And, and that’s a great way of pursuing a purpose with a profitability lens around it as well. And, and for even people, you know, they might have some really strongly held beliefs or, you know, their jam might be something that has the bones of a business opportunity that, you know, opportunity with the right support, the right encouragement, the right mentorship and a supportive ecosystem may well create livelihoods for themselves and others. And I want that to be more within reach than it feels like it is right now.

Renae Hanvin

You are so, I mean, clearly hit the nail on the head because you are the, expert in the whole sort of space, but you’re so right. I mean, I love owning a small business, but it comes with so many challenges. And the red tape, you know, for someone like me, I mean, I’m not, you know, yes, I’ve got MBAs and all that sort of stuff, but I’m not a governance expert. And, you know, it does sometimes keep me up at night, like, you know, is that box ticked, right? But that’s where having the right support people around me who are experts, like lawyers and accountants who can work with me to make sure that’s all set up properly is absolutely essential. Because at the end of the day, you know, I’m a person and you know, yes, there’s many hours that I spend that my others who are employed by other people, you know, don’t have to because they’ve clocked off and left. But I have that flexibility. I can drive my own change, but I am a person who’s trying to make a livelihood and employ other people and pay for their livelihoods as well. So I think that’s the forgotten bit.

Bruce Billson

Spot on Renae. And the thing that I keep reminding lawmakers, government ministers, regulators, a small business is not a shrink wrapped version of a big corporate. You know, you don’t have those 20 people in a compliance department, an HR team of people, specialists, your own in-house lawyers. You don’t have all of those folks at your back and call. It’s not like you’ve got a percentage of those because you’re a percentage of a big business. You are the person, you’re everything. And, and we see, you know, increasingly the emotional burden that that can carry, that arises, that, you know, there’s a sense of being overwhelmed. There’s the complexity in the economy, I mean, you know, we’re, you know, we’re always asking lawmakers to make more laws, so bad stuff doesn’t happen. And if it does, we wanna blame somebody.

It’s a very interesting European culture we have for a nation that aspires to be, you know more expeditionary, more wind in their hair. That’s not really who we are when we’re, when people are asking lawmakers to make more laws. But, but then, you know, to get that wrong, you know, we’ve got some of them smartest in fact, the department that creates the laws, for workplace relations has been stung for not paying the right amount to their staff. Now, if those that conceive of the system are struggling with it, some of our largest employers in our universities with mounts of smart people in them are getting this stuff wrong. You can imagine why a small book, small business thinks I want to do the right thing. I’m not quite sure what it is. And now with the changes coming in a misstep on a pay rate could be wage theft, you know, I mean, it gets really heavy very quickly.

And for someone, a person thinking about, Hey, I went into the business because my jam was to do something around disaster preparedness. The business of running the business is not really what gets me out of bed every day. But man, that is a bigger and heavier burden, and I’m concerned about it. And, and my mind and my bandwidth are focused on that, not on the wealth creation, the value, the joy. You know, that’s, that becomes a real concern. And I was struck by an observation, by, in fact the Chair of the Small Business Subcommittee of the Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry, she walked up to me and said, Bruce, I love what you’re doing. You’re so the money and the way you describe these, you know, the headwinds rather than wind in the sails, she goes, I’m just not having any fun anymore.

And I thought, isn’t that interesting? Because, you know, that fun factor, that sense of joy, out of doing what you’re doing, people are describing that as something that they feel like slipping away from them. And, you know, I often call work something you do when you’d rather be doing something else. From my small business journey and business journey, it’s often not felt like work. But I’m hearing business owners saying, this does feel like work. And you know, it’s sort of really weighing heavily on me and displacing the passion and the joy that was such an important part of my business journey.

Renae Hanvin

You’re so right. Again, I mean, you’ve just totally explained to me like I’ve changed my business model because of laws coming in and potential risks. And you know, financially I can’t, you know, I won’t be viable if I sort of, you know, go down certain roads as to what I used to do. And you are so right. I mean, I love being in business. I love what I can change. I love being a role model to other people. You know, and actually, you know, having a commercial example as a social enterprise of being able to, you know, drive really positive change. But it is hard at the moment. And I did, I’ll be honest, at the start of 2024, I gave myself a month and I said, if this hasn’t happened, then I’m probably I’m gonna finish. Because I just don’t know if I wanna do this anymore. Not that I can’t do it, but I don’t know if I wanna do it because there’s been so many challenges. And last, I’m still here.

Bruce Billson

On. You’re spot on. I mean, even I mentioned that, that Aki Small Business Subcommittee Chair, it was a conversation that was born out of some survey work that her organisation had done. And it was almost half of small business owners said they’d contemplated just, just wrapping it up. Yeah. Just shutting the doors. It’s just not worth the grief. And, and you sit there and you think about, well, what’s the consequences of that? I spoke about the GDP share. I spoke about the two in five private sector jobs. And but think about where you are on Melbourne’s Riviera. There, you take small and family businesses out of your community. Yeah. You are either faced with a commute to go to the CBD or something like that. Or you might be, you know, a rural or regional community that’s not blessed with a mine or, you know, a big milk processor or, you know, one single major employer.

Small family businesses are their economy. And, and if you start making that so hard and so challenging that it’s unattractive and frankly quite rational for people to say, Hey, I’m better off just getting paid a wage and salary and someone else can worry about all the grief. If we get to that point, we’re gonna lose so much vitality in our communities and viability in those communities as well. Because where’s the economic activity? Where are those livelihoods gonna come from? Where, where’s the appeal of a community center without the local small and family businesses? I was just doing an interview earlier, one of the businesses, the bodacious Mrs. Billson and I used to own was a gallery, and fine Australian craft business down in the Mornington Peninsula right now.

We would be working as hard as we ever worked, because if we can’t make the festive season work, what does that mean for the business for the rest of the year can be really a go or no go experience, because that’s just the challenges that we face. And, you know, the business owners the last to be paid. Everyone else is first. And, and you know, when there’s more work to be done, and not the resources, not the buoyancy in the business to pay people to do it, you’re just doing more time yourself, you know, and, the owners that do the extra hours. So I was just doing a bit of a shout out to those people at this time of year where it can be really significant how things go for them in this window in terms of what the implications are for the viability going forward.

Renae Hanvin

You’re so true. And just to share, we won’t be, this won’t be out until next year, but we are recording this just before the holiday season. So for any holiday season for so many businesses, and you know, I’m not in a business necessarily that’s reliant on, you know, summer seasons or, you know, tourism seasons, et cetera. But I certainly have certain times of the year that are really critical for me when, you know, my customers need me to be delivering it and whatnot. And if, if you’re a business that’s set up for, you know, I don’t know, 60, 70% of your annual income comes from holiday sales and, you know, we don’t have the money to spend and you are not getting the tourists and that, then that’s massive impacts. And I hear so many, so many times, Bruce and I used to be the same that I would pay everyone else before myself.

Renae Hanvin

And then I’d literally be sitting up at night going, oh my gosh, this month I need to dip into the savings because that client hasn’t paid me, you know, so I’m waiting on the money to come in, but I’m making sure that I’m paying everyone else. So it is, it is a real challenge, but I think, again, the benefits for me outweigh it. And again, I’m still here now outside of all the red tape, which obviously you’ve mentioned that you really focus on, which is great. because that’s the stuff, quite frankly, that bores me. But I need people like you to make it better. I’m obviously interested in the sort of different side and the disastery sort of space of really this new era of compounding disasters and disruptions. So we’ve got the natural hazards, like the bush fires, floods, and then other impacts like cyber attacks, staff shortages, supply chain issues.

4. I mean, I know we’ve sort of alluded to it, but it’s clearly getting harder to be well in business in general, but it to be in small business, isn’t it?

Bruce Billson

Well, it is. And and I think your key point that you made in that introduction was, it’s not like it’s a single event and then there’s a neat little window where you can recover it. It’s rolling. It’s, it’s like, you know, we’ve just got through and just getting the show back together after a disaster, and then something else hits. And, and this is something that, you know, came up when we were doing our small business disaster preparedness and resilience inquiry. People were talking about this, this lack of recovery opportunity, and that that was draining their reserves of cash, and emotional resilience, frankly. And that, that was an enormous challenge that they’d just get through that, event and it’d be devastating and it would be, you know, really challenging them at so many levels. Because, you know, our work also revealed that so often small and family business owners are community leaders in another sense.

And they’re very… Excuse me. They’re very active and involved in supporting their community. Sometimes they’re not as focused on their own circumstance, and yet they are the ones leading the SCS work. They’re very involved in the Chamber of Commerce. They are very generous giving people, and they see their business as part of themselves and part of themselves as part of a community. And there’s that connectedness that sees them so generously give of time, effort, and insight that can often mean they’re being drained from a number of perspectives. Not only dealing with their own immediate circumstances, but realising it’s not just their livelihood, it’s their team’s livelihoods as well. There’s other people counting on them. Not only are their own families being challenged, but those people that are dear to them, small business, tend to have a very, very involved engagement with their team. Because everyone’s very personal and they all know each other.

And, and then they’re looking around and seeing that their community’s being impacted in a devastating way. And there’s this propensity to act to want to help. So, so we see that as a, as a real issue. And that, you know, at some point, you know, small business owners, they’ll encourage their own staff to be involved in fire and rescue and, Country Fire Authority and SES, and they, you know, they’re so giving, they’re so giving, what’s, what’s the plan to give back a bit and help replenish and renew? And, and, and when is that generous contribution maybe being extended to a point where it puts the business in a very difficult space? So, so we think there’s a lot in that. Um, we’re also a little concerned that, you know, for a lot of business owners who are, you know, the greatest renewable resource in our country is small business owner optimism.

I mean, even when things are, you know, at any demonstrable level really challenging, there’s still optimistic that the next season’s gonna be better or it’s gonna, it’s gonna improve. But part of that plays out in that only one in four small businesses actually have a business continuity plan. This is where people have sat down and thought about what could knock me off course. It might be a natural disaster, but many don’t think about another kind of disaster. Well, if something happens to them. A health event, you know, a caring duty obligation. You know, their parents, might be losing their marbles and they’re called upon to do what the, you know, as a leader in a community and business sense, often in family sense as well. What happens then? Well, how are they gonna get through that? What’s the plan? Where’s the, what steps will they take? Where do the vital information that’ll keep the show going? That’s another dimension we think is under discussed, but really important.

Renae Hanvin

Bruce, that is absolutely fundamental. And as you know, at Resilient Ready, I mean, we are all about helping to build knowledge and, you know, to think different and do different. So getting people in small business and nonprofits, um, to really be learning and embedding how they can be resilient and ready to all types of disruptions in their everyday business practices. Because a business continuity plan is absolutely a critical asset. But so many people I speak to, they kind of started one and it’s sitting getting digital dust, and they don’t really update it. They don’t really know what it means. It’s all a bit complex. It’s too hard. So what we are trying to do with our micro learning approach is getting people to think in really five minute intervals about what they can do to embed it. So you mentioned before so many small business people don’t think about themselves.

So we have a mini module called Linchpin. So it’s like, who’s the linchpin in your business? And I used to be the linchpin because I was the one that knew everything. And then I reset up my business so that actually anyone can come in and do things. ’cause I’ve got all these video explainers or really simple, really simple ways that you can explain. Other people can pick up and do things. But again, lots of farmers that we present that to go, Ah I’m like, get your phone out, record yourself starting the generator or the tractor, save it, email it to five people, and then you’re not a linchpin when that task needs to happen anymore. So, lots of really simple things.

Bruce Billson

They’re great insights. I mean, it’s interesting. I mean, you and I have discussed this before, but but the appetite and interest in business continuity planning is incredibly impressive immediately after a disaster or an event. But man, it falls away quickly. Oh yeah. You know, and it’s sort of like, okay, no, I’ve really gotta do one of those. You know, things are tough. I know someone I know has been through a big experience. I’ve been through a big experience. I’ve now gotta think about that. And then there’s, oh, what? Then I’ve gotta get a bad statement in, you know? Yeah. And so they just dragged off, dragged off on the day to day. And then we often use the phrase, you know, working on the business is different from working in the business and that there’s a need for that. The other thing too that, um, we’ve observed is that, um, those that are better prepared invariably bounce back better.

Renae Hanvin

Yeah. Hundred percent.

Bruce Billson

Because they’ve thought about a range of scenarios that they’ve got themselves match ready to be able to contend with those. They know what steps to take. So even that sense of overwhelming challenge or quite distress, high degree of distress at that time, they’ve got a plan that says, well, you’ve done thinking in a less challenged environment. You know, what those actions steps are. And, you know, some of the work that I used to do as part of, AusAID after natural disasters in the region, being able to do something constructively that’s positive and it’s action orientated after a big event is incredibly therapeutic. But it’s also really helpful to get you back on track. So, you know, as a range of things like that, I’m glad to hear you’ve got those micro sessions. Really important.

Renae Hanvin

So important. And again, you know, we’re all busy running businesses, but if you can take five minutes a day or a week just to think and do something a little bit different, and I think the World Bank data Bruce says that $1 invested before can save after $15 in recovery. So it doesn’t have to be money like that you put in time as well. So just putting in time, I mean, those numbers are pretty big. So getting yourself ready for what’s gonna come. because there is gonna be more ahead now, as you know, I’ve been advocating for small business community resilience for many years now, and we are slowly making some really positive change and getting it on the agenda. Now, in the disaster resilience sector, though, there is a massive gap in that small businesses are in so many ways the forgotten or ignored.

Or totally misunderstood stakeholder group. And we mentioned before the notion of livelihoods, and we say this in the sector, li you know, we save lives and livelihoods as key priorities for disaster resilience, but we really don’t as a sector activate that livelihoods part, especially not in the small business sense now. I’ve been saying for so many years that getting small businesses resilient and ready for the future falls through the gap. It’s not us, I guess, sorry, it’s not us, is kind of a phrase that I’ve heard so many times, actually thought of writing a book about it. Who’s responsible for small business resilience? It’s not us. But as a small business owner, I really appreciate and I know the key responsibility for getting my business resilient and ready for disaster impacts. It sits with me like it’s my responsibility alongside every other small business owner, but with a bigger whole of government lens that you can bring.

5. Can you please share with me who should be responsible for helping Australian small businesses to get resin and ready for the future challenges? Because we need help. Is it an emergency services emergency management disaster resilience issue? Is it a small business Minister issue? Is it both? Please share with me who the golden, who the golden child is. I need to be following.

Bruce Billson

Well, we, we actually think it’s all of those things, which probably not very helpful. But what we’ve argued and, and keep advocating, is that a small business, um, front of mind posture is what’s needed at so many levels. We do think in terms of emergency management, there’s a vital role there, and even if it’s not, fully appreciated, what, how economically vital the small and family business community is in terms of the capacity of a community to respond. It’s the same people, you know. And, and, and there’s such a crucial element. Those small and family business owners and leaders are so central to a community’s capacity to respond. Having said that, we have urged that government think about how do you activate the capability and land the resources and insights that will help bring about the actions that you’re hoping for.

So we said, look, Emergency Management Australia, this needs to be part of your staff, you would’ve seen our report that 98 cents from the dollar after the event, you know, we’re urging, a greater focus on preparatory sort of investment. We actually thought through the, um, through local government, there was a real opportunity. Um, most of my state colleagues, the small business commissioners, oversee something called a small business friendly Council program. We were arguing that, you know, there’s space for the feds to send some money through those programs to make sure at a local government level, there’s a real connectedness and engagement and genuine conversation with small family and farming businesses at a local government level. We think that’s important for three things. One, often the DIS plan, the disaster planning at a local level is very much centrally driven out of a council area until it scales to a certain level.

Where is the small and family business focus? Um, a decision to shut a street prematurely can have a devastating impact. We saw in one of the Lismore floods, you know, no discourtesy intended, but an out of Towner, event controller called, you know, the emergency made the emergency call too early. So all the local businesses that actually had plans to move stock and assets all of a sudden couldn’t do that because if they, if their staff were hurt or injured because that emergency call had been made, that declaration had been made, workers’ compensation wouldn’t work. So, so there’s an example where local knowledge was central to a timely and optimized approach. So we think through that channel, you get the local disaster planning would see, involve and recognise the important dimension that small and family businesses, should play. And then the role they can also play in recovery.

It’s also at a spatial level where you can bring talent and resources together. They might showcase a a under their economic development agenda, and most councils have them. They might see this as a real economic development opportunity and bring people like yourself and others into that community to share the knowledge and the resources and the tools. It’ll see local people on the ground that are gonna be part of any response. Actually know who they are, that if there’s government support available, they’ll stand up a hub where all that help will come together and they’ll probably, probably activate all that help, which is often so generous. It falls over itself, you know? Yeah. And you end up having affected people, um, having to tell their story over and over again rather than it being triaged and landed because, you know, who knows the, you, you and I have had this discussion before, Renae.

It’s an extremely complicated and confusing ecosystem about who’s involved and who makes what call. Well, can’t we make that a little bit more straightforward? And then when it gets to the response, you understand that shipping in truckloads of stuff makes it impossible for the local business that sells that stuff to actually survive. It also is about saying it’s not just those directly impacted the local and not my words, ’cause it can be a little bit grating, but, you know, the fireies call it the fire scar. Now, if you and I were running a crop dusting business in Western New South Wales and all of our crops were wiped out by a fire or a flood event or something, our planes might be fine. We’ve just got no customers. And, and to understand that connectedness within the economy, that’s something that needs to be part of it.

And then the help that’s available, you know, I keep I keep urging people, households are very important. Citizens are very important, but part of their life is their business. Where’s the business support, immediate help, but then a longer term plan to recover and implement. You know, that continuity strategy, recognizing if you’re a seasonal operator or a primary producer primary, the impact might be for multiple seasons that you’re not just going to get back on your feet just when the immediate disaster passes. So we’ve had a lot to say around that and we keep advocating that point. But we do think a more joined up approach with a spatial lens brought to life through local government and timely support, including, you know, through potentially that small business friendly council program will bring capability resources. It’ll establish the networks that you want to know who’s doing what. And it’ll actually have people informed about what happens next with a lens on what the small and family business community can contend with the role they can play and the best path out for recovery.

Renae Hanvin

Bruce, so what I’m hearing, and again, it’s aligned to what we’ve been having conversations with for many years. I think small business needs to be and have a seat at the table. We just, we are just not at, we are not invited to be at the table. And from every lens from the responding to emergency services, to the planning, you know, strategies, et cetera. It’s so important. I love, and I’m actually gonna contact you in the new year about the friendly councils. ’cause I think we are doing a lot with individual councils. And I think there could be some really big opportunities to do with statewide or national councils. And I think…

Bruce Billson

That’s an example. Like the small business friendly council program tends to be, you know, give local contractors a chance, pay your bills on time, you know, look like you care, and if you’re doing infrastructure works, try not to cruel a business in doing stuff. They are the basic building blocks of that. Just add another one. A disaster preparedness say, well, this is what we expect of you as well. And you want to do economic development stuff. This is pretty key to that. But it’s also a model that can be rolled out elsewhere. I mean, people will go, oh, there’s government grants around. Like, like what, what are they? Well, you build those relationships in advance. The council would be obliged to understand how the local small business communities organised itself. Who are the groups who are the movers and shakers? It might not be the chambers, it might be a craft group. Could be the ONGs Association. Well, whatever. But you know, that literally it builds those sins, those connections that is so important to getting this right. And, and we think that’s a good channel to tap to achieve that.

Renae Hanvin

Oh, it’s fundamental. And I know you’ve been alluding to the economic side of it, um, in this conversation, but as you know, we’ve just won a lot of funding to deliver a social capital and social infrastructure project from 2025 with Professor Daniel Aldrich, which is gonna bring a measurement to the value of social infrastructure, including social businesses. So the cafes, the pubs, I mean, every regional community we talk to, they talk about how vital the pub is. Yet anyone from emergency services doesn’t go anywhere near the pub. It’s like, but hang on. That’s where the community is. But we might need another podcast for that. Just to let you know, we are delivering a project in, with a council in New South Wales in 2025. That’s actually gonna create them a disaster response plan for the community with a lens on what business, small businesses do and don’t need.

So exactly those notions of, you know, to keep our small businesses and farmers in business, this is what we do and don’t want to come, um, you know, into the community to help us. So hopefully that will be a bit of a groundbreaking lens. Because I know so many businesses in Gippsland in Victoria and whatnot, and you know, they owned the local store. They went out fire captain, they went out to fight the fires. Their business basically went under ’cause they had no revenue coming in and they couldn’t sell anything ’cause of all the free stuff coming in. So it’s a, it’s an ecosystem of problems, but we’ll save that from another day.

Bruce Billson

Two things. One would be roll out a place-based local small business focused agenda, through the small business friendly council program at local government that would put small and family businesses front and center in the planning for the understanding of impacts the operationalizing of a disaster response. And would be a great way of bringing together in one plaza the help and resources that are available with a local implementation lens to them. That would be number one. Number two, I would probably talk about joining up some of the mitigation work with financial rewards. Yes, I am a little critical of insurance for constantly saying, risk mitigation, risk mitigation, risk mitigation. But we all know insurance operates on a pooled or collective risk model. So if you and I were two of 2000 that had done everything imaginable in a mitigation sense, we will get absolutely zero benefit in terms of the affordability and accessibility of our policies.

Insurance is such an important part to it, and I think for people, we need to show that there is reward and better access and better affordability if people do take the steps that are within their gift to take. And I really think a recalibration around that to incentivize preparedness, to incentivize risk assessment and mitigation. To have people thinking in that line, realising that their risk, mechanisms, whether it’s self-insured or whatever the case may be, require them to stay vigilant and engaged. But there needs to be some incentive and benefit and reward for those doing all they can. And, and I think that’s a big part of the piece that needs to be improved in my view.

Renae Hanvin

So true. And I’m so glad you mentioned that. And obviously when we met in person recently, I shared with you our Doing Insurance Differently White paper and focus. And we are in really active conversations with industry groups and governments and also corporates actually at the moment. And I’m having some amazing conversations with certain, small business commissioners in some states at the moment to be putting in to seek some funding to really drive change across that whole space.

Bruce Billson

Look, it’s needed. I mean, you know, it to give you from coast to coast, you know. A visitor, a destination on the south coast of New South Wales virtually has accommodation buried all infrastructure protected, incredible, incredible efforts to guard against fire. No, you’re in the wrong region, we’re not gonna insure you. Same thing’s happening in Margaret River right now. You know, incredible amount of work that’s being put in and it’s just no reward, no for people that are doing the right thing. This, this pool, this postcode, this collective evaluation, I think is actually crawling, the very sincere and genuine efforts of people who are doing all they possibly can. I think they need to see an upside from that. And I’m urging the insurance sector who knows more about this than anybody, to not just keep explaining, why things are tough and why it’s so expensive or not available. Map the path to fix it. Use all that data and insights to map a path forward. That’s what I’ve been urging and we’ll stay on that case.

Renae Hanvin

Yeah. I love it. We’ll, definitely we’ll be talking a lot more of that in the future because we’re on that path too. So a massive thank you to the Hon Bruce Billson, the Australian Small Business and Family Enterprise Ombudsman for talking to me about its time to focus on small businesses. Thank you so much, Bruce.

Bruce Billson

Great to be with you. Take care.